cellulase

[flyboy3b]

ive been looking into this more and more and am not having alot of luck finding enzymes suitable for breaking down paper or green waste. im wondering if anyone has found a source for these enzymes and what sort of results they may have gotten,
thanks

[violentblue]

enzymes for breaking down cellulose are difficult to come by and difficult to use. and best put the product in your car, cause you wouldn't want to drink it.
from my reading, this seems to be almost exclusivly done in the commercial sector, f thats the case then the enzymes and process used will be closely guarded.

unfortunatly mashing cellulose is quite different than mashing grain. you need to pretreat the material first in a type of acid, then mix in the enzymes. too much acid and it kills the enzymes, too little and the enzymes cant do their job. more work and expence than the typical distiller wants to attempt.

if you are further down this road than the rest of us, we'd love to hear what you've learned. and I'll keep searching for a source for the elusive enzyme

[flyboy3b]

the use of acids is an alternative to the enzymes. and i dont really want to get into that process. ive got some emails out for requests for samples from a couple of companies,, but my guess is, theyre not gonna be an enzyme that will completely break down the lignin.
i posted here on the outside chance someone has heard of a home remedy for this as it is not a new process. traditionally, however, in the past,, it has been done with the acid method. and yes,, the companies that are developing newer, more cost effctive enzymes are guarding them closely (oddly enough, they are using government grants to fund this research).
ill keep poking around and let the group know if i come up with anything usefull. ya know,, sometimes its us hillbilly basement experimentors that come up with the breakthroughs.

even a blind pig finds an occasional acorn

[The Chemist]

Lack of "good" cellulases is the major barrier to biofuels/viable fuel ethanol. The one that finds it will make billions upon billions upon billion. So, of course it's carefully guarded...but, keep at it!! It could very well come from a 'DIY-er', not the big guys!!

This really should be in the fuel section...

[flyboy3b]

this is the reply i got from Biocatalysts Limited,,,


Dear Mike,



Thank you very much for your enquiry. Sorry but we are unable to assist you as unfortunately we do not supply the enzyme you require.





Kind regards


Nicola Hicks

Marketing Assistant

i thought about putting it in the fuel section, but i figured it was more a research issue
thanks

[rad14701]

The enzymes are still in the experimental stages and the labs are definitely NOT going to share any information... And once they think they have them perfected, they will need to undergo a lot of FDA and CDC testing and approval... The last thing you want is a rogue artificial enzyme getting out that can decimate all plant life... I just saw some coverage about one that is way too potent - almost more like a plague... I can see it now - enzymatic warfare... Conquer your enemies by reducing all of their crops to oily slime... I'm content to wait patiently...

[flyboy3b]

i wonder if the "oily slime" would burn in my minivan?

[The Chemist]

Enzymes are not self-replicating. The organisms used to produce them are. And such organism ARE treated as if they were the plague...often, when they're tinkering around with their genes to make them produce what they want, they build in features that prevent them from surviving "in the wild". A "self-destruct" mechanism, as it were.

[flyboy3b]

im not saying i would start genetically engineering my own enzymes, im not near smart enough for that. but, after all, at a point,,,,, nobody knew about making corn whiskey, they didnt know why milk left in a sheeps intestine would turn milk to cheese. my point is,, there are many naturally occuring enzymes and perhaps a combination of 2 or 3 may come up with a winning combination.
ive wasted time doing sillier things

[manu de hanoi]

just dump your cellulose in the best bio reactor : the cow. it'll come out readily as meat & methane

[manu de hanoi]

by the way what's so wrong about carefully distilled wood alcohol ?

[flyboy3b]

just dump your cellulose in the best bio reactor : the cow. it'll come out readily as meat & methane

good call

the reason i want to try to use paper is because the wood has already been broken down. from what ive read,, processing wood requires some more steps in heating the wood fibers and breaking down the lignin.

[manu de hanoi]

from what ive read, acid processing seems really easy, just dump sulfuric acid and heat (i believe).

[flyboy3b]

from what ive read, acid processing seems really easy, just dump sulfuric acid and heat (i believe).

ive done some reading about the "acid" method. from what i can see,, there is a problem with disposal of the acid. ive been trying some diferent enzymes, as far as i can tell, i havent had any success yet. ive been sprouting as many different seeds as i can find and mixing different combinations. i take some newspaper and put it in the blender, boil it for a bit, reduce the temp to 130f and add the enzymes. i slowly bring it up to 170f, and see what happens.
as i said,, i dont seem to be making any progress,, but i might be getting smarter

[Centimeter]

I take it you’re using alpha amylase? If so, might as well stop already. Cellulose is beta linked. Instead of looking for cellulase, try experimenting with beta linkage enzymes. Unfortunately, your progress will be disappointing I predict. Beta linkages are really strong due to additional hydrogen bonding. Beta linkage enzymes do exist in nature, but they are slow and uneconomical.

To be honest with you, without extensive knowledge about biochemistry coupled with an entire regimen of expensive equipment, your chances of successfully developing an effective enzyme are remote at best.

I’ve heard this enzyme referred to as the holy grail of enzymes. He who develops it and patents it will almost instantly become one of the most powerful people on earth. Believe me when I say that there are a lot of brilliant PhDs around the world working on this…

If you are absolutely set on giving it an honest shot, your best bet is to start studying crystal structures of beta linkage enzymes. If you can find a way to mutate the catalytic site such that it increases the turn over rate dramatically, you might have something. Once again though, to do this, you’d have to have access to at least a sequencing facility, a pcr machine, and e.coli processing equipment. I’m not trying to dishearten you, I just feel that a reality check is in order.

Acid hydrolysis would most certainly be an option and as far as we’re concerned the only feasible one for an at home distiller to experiment with. If you’re interested, start looking through German patents as many of the processes were developed by German chemists. Good luck though in your search! If you figure this out, you would most certainly win a Nobel Prize.